Shedding the pounds: Part 2 - minimizing rope on Y Belays or Y Hangs

This is the second post in a mini series about shedding weight from your rigging. The goals are to minimize rope waste, reduce the number of pieces of gear carried, maximize efficiency and never sacrifice safety. Ropes from 8mm-11mm in diameter, and manufactured by Sterling Rope, Petzl and Highline Rope will be tested.

Sterling Rope generously donated 4 short lengths of static rope for some of these tests. They asked nothing in return, other than to send them the data.

Product links are at the end of the post. Please consider purchasing your rope and other caving gear from the CES, as all proceeds go to support caving expeditions and research.

Now that we have data, what does that tell us about saving weight and rope waste? According to Sterling Rope’s website, 10mm Workpro rope weighs 4.5lbs per 100 feet or 0.06 ounces per inch (0.67g/cm). From a weight perspective, on a Y hang with 36 inch (.91m) loops/legs you might save 1.29 Oz (14.41g)! Yay?!? (a quick digression, the interrobang, “?!?” is my favorite punctuation mark) And this assumes that you cut the rope to the exact length of the pitch. However, when we look at rope waste, choosing a knot becomes slightly more relevant. In the same scenario, one saves roughly 22 inches (55cm), which might be important on a multi-pitch drop.

Here is the expanded data table:

weight chart.JPG

Comparing the double figure 8 to the bowline - butterfly combo, the stats are always in favor of the later.

fig8 chart.JPG

And finally the double bowline on a bight vs double figure 8:

doublebow chart.JPG

My take on all this data is, knot selection is most helpful when rigging multi pitch drops in the alpine style. Choosing a knot based on weight and rope usage for Fantastic pit is not that important.

Coming up next is comparing variable length loops using more algebra and graphing!

Link to caving gear for sale.

Shedding the pounds: minimizing rope on Y Belays or Y Hangs

This is the second post in a mini series about shedding weight from your rigging. The goals are to minimize rope waste, reduce the number of pieces of gear carried, maximize efficiency and never sacrifice safety. Ropes from 8mm-11mm in diameter, and manufactured by Sterling Rope, Petzl and Highline Rope will be tested.

Sterling Rope generously donated 4 short lengths of static rope for some of these tests. They asked nothing in return, other than to send them the data.

Product links are at the end of the post. Please consider purchasing your rope and other caving gear from the CES, as all proceeds go to support caving expeditions and research.

In the book Alpine Caving Techniques it states that when one leg of a Y anchor is much shorter than the other, you can save rope if a figure 8 knot is used on the top anchor and a butterfly knot is used on the lower anchor, compared to a figure 8 with bunny ears. This post will look at a Y Belay or Y Hang with equal legs, tied with a double figure 8, double bowline on a bight, or a butterfly-figure 8 combo.

To start, let’s look at how much 10mm static rope is needed to tie each knot. All knots were dressed and pulled tight before measuring. The butterfly and figure 8 were tied tight around a 1 inch (2.54cm) diameter pipe to create a small, uniform bight. Each bight took on average 4.25 inches (10.80cm) of rope. Rope lengths are rounded to the nearest 0.25 inches (6mm). All referenced knot lengths are their respective averages.

All figures are in inches.

All figures are in inches.

Now let’s define some variables before we write the equations.
L=Length of long loop/leg
S=Length of short loop
V=Double figure 8 a.k.a. figure 8 with ears
W=Double bowline on a bight
X=Figure 8 on a bight (including the length of the knot)
Y=Butterfly
Z=8 inch tail

Y BELAY (Y HANG) WITH EQUAL EARS (this is the easy one)

Butterfly and Figure 8 on a bight
Length of rope =(L+X)+(2S+Y)+Z —> (L+21.5)+(2S+17.75)+8 —> L+2S+47.25

Double figure 8
Length of rope =2L+2S+V+Z —> 2L+2S+(37.75+8) —> 2L+2S+45.75

Double bowline on a bight
Length of rope =2L+2S+W+Z —> 2L+2S+(25+8) —> 2L+2S+33

To figure out when Butterfly and Figure 8 on a bight is better than a Double bowline on a bight, let’s set the equations equal to each other, and solve. L+2S+47.25=2L+2S+33 Thankfully the S variables cancel out and we get L=14.25 This means that when the long loop/leg is less than14.25 inches, a double bowline on a bight uses less rope. For loops greater than 14.25 inches long, a Butterfly and Figure 8 on a bight uses less rope. Here’s the crossover chart showing how much rope is needed per knot.

crossover.JPG
 

Double figure 8 vs Butterfly and Figure 8, that’s easy. 2L+2S+45.75=L+2S+47.25 L=1.5 Tie a Butterfly and Figure 8 on a bight anytime the loops/leg are over 1.5 inches to minimize rope waste.

We also know that a double figure 8 uses, on average, an extra 12.75 inches of rope compared to a double bowline on a bight.

Link to caving gear for sale.

Up next is Y Belays with uneven loops.

Shedding the pounds: Joining 2 ropes together

It only seems fitting to start a mini series about shedding weight from your rigging, on the day after Thanksgiving. The goals are to minimize rope waste, reduce the number of pieces of gear carried, maximize efficiency and never sacrifice safety. I will be using rope diameters from 9-11mm, manufactured by Sterling Rope, Petzl and Highline Rope.

Sterling Rope generously donated 4 short lengths of static rope for some of these tests.

Upcoming posts:
Figure 8 with bunny ears vs Bowline on a bight
Rigging a 4 pitch horizontal traverse with Butterfly vs Figure 8 knots
Ring hanger and a Bowline on a bight vs twist hanger, carabiner and Figure 8
The Gandalf knot (for Philip)
And more.

Zeppelin bend vs Triple figure 8

Back in March 2020 there was a great discussion about joining two ropes, mid-pitch, of roughly equal diameter together on the Vertical Cavers Facebook page. The common knots used for this are a double fisherman’s knot and a triple figure 8. Greg Moore and Rick Speaect commented about using a Zeppelin bend. Because a double fisherman’s and a flemish bend (figure 8 bend) require a separate knot to create a loop for your cow’s tail to clip into, I am eliminating them from the comparison.

For this test, I used 10mm Work Pro static rope from Sterling, and compared the amount of rope needed to tie the knots and the length of the knots. I did not include the length of the tails. All knots were dressed and tensioned by hand. Lengths were rounded to the nearest 0.25 inch.

The tails should be tied with equal lengths of rope, at least 8 inches each, so that any slippage can be easily seen by tails that are unequal lengths. In both knots the upper rope should be tied with the loop.

5 Triple figure 8s used on average 45.95 inches, which rounds to 46 inches of rope per knot.
1) 45.75 inches
2) 46.5 inches
3) 46.25 inches
4) 46.75 inches
5) 44.5 inches

Triple figure 8

Triple figure 8

Zeppelin bend

Zeppelin bend

5 Zeppelin bends with eye loop used an average of 32.30 inches, which rounds to 32.25 inches of rope per knot.
1) 30.25 inches
2) 33.25 inches
3) 33.25 inches
4) 32.0 inches
5) 32.75 inches

It is notable that the Zeppelin bend uses 13.75 fewer inches of rope (43% less) than the Triple figure 8, and the ease of adjusting, or untying the knot later on. Now saving over a foot of rope is never a bad thing, it is unlikely that you will need to tie 2 or more ropes together on a single pitch.

The real benefit may be the length of the tied knot/bend, 2 inches for the Zeppelin and 4 inches for the Triple figure 8. When rappelling past the knot with a long frame rack or improperly adjusted cows’ tails that 2 inch difference may make a huge difference on how easy the knot can be passed.

For more information, you can download a paper on the Zeppelin bend from the Professional Association of Climbing Instructors website.

Disclaimer: Nothing on this website should be considered advise or how to techniques, and the information may contain errors. Do not rely on website for training. Be careful!

State of The CES

 

This year is an interesting year for everybody.  Each of us are bunkering down in place to stay safe from SARS-cov-2 and face pain and hardships we never thought we would have to face.  We stare into the unknown economic pandemonium which will evolve as the pandemic continues to spread.  There is so much uncertainty as to how we will continue to work and live over the next few years.  Like every other organization, the Cave Exploration Society is facing many existential questions about our role when cave exploration is extremely limited.   In our first annual letter, which I am calling the State of the CES, I would like to reflect on the first few months, discuss our current situation, and lay out the framework for the future.

 

Through the generous time and dedication of our co-founder and president, John Fioroni, we have established ourselves as an incorporated not-for-profit here in our home state of Massachusetts.  The legal designation has been instrumental in raising funds and also establishing our charter, and setting the tone for how we wish to operate.  These first few months have been critical to the character of our organization as we find our footing.  It is difficult for any group to define themselves and get moving.  A lot of debate amongst our early members and supporters tried to figure out exactly what we were.

 

The tributaries that have combined to make up a larger project began in the preceding decades as all of us felt there needed to be an organization which focused on people’s passions for a project, and provide the guidance and support to make it happen.  So many times during the past 20 years of my caving career many people, including myself, have expressed interest in conducting a project but do not have the experience to pull it off, or the resources to make it happen.  Many times, these projects die as quickly as they are born due to a lack of guidance or support.  Other times I have asked to be part of the momentum of other organizations, and found a frustrating institutional inertia or disinterest from established parties.  So after years of gaining experience in other fields the founders finally found a critical mass of cavers and explorers to create an organization that does just that.  This group aimed to be global, focusing on any project that people have passion for.  We pulled together experienced scientists, explorers, writers, photographers, and anybody that has the capacity to help into a common cause.  Our goal is to enable members and partners to conduct projects related to caving, and find ways to make it happen.  This ranges from science, to mapping and exploration, to reviewing and establishing new safety protocols, and creating frameworks for rescues operations.

 

Cavers regardless of skill are welcome to join our organization, because we feel that everybody has value and can help to fulfil our mission.  But we also don’t focus on membership numbers, we do not mind if our membership is 10 or 10,000 – instead we want to focus on the quality of our projects and work, and want people to join our efforts because they too believe in exploring caves.

 

Additionally, anybody who has spent time in caving communities around the world knows that there are layers of localized politics, secret caves, and ancient maps rotting away in people’s basements.  I cannot fathom the sheer amount of knowledge wasted from people not recording information or sharing it.  This has disheartened and frustrated the common purpose of so many cavers, and needs to be fixed.  Therefore adopted a few radical approaches to exploration we feel are lacking.  One of the first things that we did was create a data management plan focused on the principles of inclusion and openness.  Our partners have a unique level of partnership and co-ownership of each project.  We feel that every one of our partners will have equal access to the data we created together, and we hope to create a system that is more transparent, open, and fair.  We hope to publish our data, but do not want to support paywall or limited access resources.

 

Our first steps are now behind us, and now we are stretching our proverbial legs.  The reality is that as a new group with a unique mission, we will stumble in these first few years as we find our footing.  We are building a library of scientific equipment and are teaching people how to use it in the hopes that people will have the tools to begin citizen-science projects, and find partnerships for projects either within the CES or through other relationships.  We are creating an ongoing experiment to measure common bolt placement problems we see so that we can create databases of common failures.  We are working on grants to obtain even more advanced scientific equipment.  And we are leading trips to lead or coordinate large exploration projects in Cuba, Turkey, Italy, and the United States.  As we find our footing we may trip, but that is how we will grow.    

 

The CES is not trying to duplicate the social or scientific efforts that other caving organizations cover, we feel that those organizations sufficiently cover those missions.  I personally have subscribed life membership to a number of other caving organizations because I strongly believe in their purpose and want to support them.  But there remain significant gaps in project management and scientific exploration that needs to be filled, and that is where the CES comes in.  We are eager to take up the mantle and lead the way, but we are even more excited to enable others to do the same.  With clear mission and untapped enthusiasm, I believe the CES will begin a new phase of caving.

Lee-Gray Boze, Board Member 

Finding discounts

I thought I would talk about one of my favorite website for finding deals on caving supplies. SlickDeals.net is an forum where people post…slick deals. If you can think of an item, it probably has been posted on there. After you make an account, you can create “deal alerts” that are triggered by key words, such as, carabiner, water bottle, freeze dried food, rite-in-the-rain paper, Petzl, etc. Alerts are available by email or through your account.

Last week, Amazon.com was selling HDPE 1 Qt water bottles for $3.39 each! That’s less than my wholesale cost.

Slickdealers (the name for people that post deals) routinely post deals on gift cards, too. If you are going to buy something from Target or Home Depot, might as well buy a gift card for say 15% off the face value.

What do you keep in your emergency kit?

Once a year I try to go though my emergency kit, evaluate what is in it and restock any missing items. The kit stays the same for recreational trips and short expeditions. My goal is to limit the size and weight to roughly 1 pound (450 grams). The old kit weighted 16.2 oz (458g). After restocking, 17.2 oz (489g). The extra weight mostly came from moving my space blanket, 2.1 oz (50g) from inside my helmet to the emergency kit. The rational is I would rather keep my helmet as light as possible.

The containers should be small, water proof, durable and protect their contents. Some options are Dry bags Pros: light weight and condense to the shape and size of the kit. Cons: not as durable as a hard shell, leak easily and don’t protect the contents from being crushed. Hard shell cases Pros: very water proof, good access to contents and protect contents from being crushed. Cons: heavy, can’t fill to 100% and expensive. Water bottles Pros: light weight, durable, crush resistant. Cons: poor access to contents.

It’s easy to get carried away and try to pack for every emergency. Picking a small container will help avoid this issue, plus container that is just big enough will keep the contents from sliding around. There are items in my kit that couldn’t possibly be used on every caving trip. I am OK with that, because I would much rather have them when they are actually needed.

Missing from my kit is a knife. My kit always goes in my carry on, and I have lost a knife to the TSA. Not to mention, when caving I prefer to carry my knife on a lanyard around my neck. There is a single razor blade wrapped in tape, in the kit. Also missing are tools, most people keep a multi purpose tool in their kit, so why carry another one, plus they are heavy.

I pack my kit starting with the least used items. If they are needed, 90% of the kit will have to come out. A definite drawback of of using a bottle. Nothing in my kit is very heavy, the space blanket is the heaviest item at 2.1 oz (59g), so weight is not part of the packing order. At the very top are 5 large zip ties.

This year I “upgraded” my wide mouth Nalgene bottle to a lighter HDPE version. It saved me 2.3 oz (72 g).

 
Older heavier bottle

Older heavier bottle

New light weight HDPE bottle with fresh duct tape.

New light weight HDPE bottle with fresh duct tape.

 

Below is a picture of the old kit, notice the excess of some of the items, this usually happens when I think of something useful to add and don’t check if it is already in the kit. And what is missing, like band aids, medicine and zip ties. The bottle with contents weighs 16.2 oz (458g)

org contents.jpg

From top to bottom, left to right:

First row: 4 aqua tabs. 9 hour candle. tweezers. 3 sheets of rite-in-the-rain paper. 10 more aquatabs. 2 pairs of gloves.

Second row: Strike anywhere matches. more strike anywhere matches. 6’ (2m) of aluminum foil tape. collapsing spork. ear plugs. antibiotic ointment. glow stick.

Third row: mole skin. gauze. more rite-in-the-rain paper. 2 short pencils. permanent marker. ball point pen. steel wool.

Fourth row: cravat, more aluminum foil tape. 9’ (3m) flagging. 25’ (8m) spectra fishing line 150 lb (65 kg) strength. Station light. partial roll of silicone tape. large roll of 1/2” (12mm) medical tape.

 

The new kit weighs 1 oz (28g) more than the old one, but contains many more items. To keep things organized, small items have been placed in small zip top baggies. Missing is a packet of salt from a fast food restaurant and a packet of sugar.

Restocked kit.

Restocked kit.

From top to bottom, left to right.

First row: 2, 3x3 gauze pads. 4x4 gauze pad. 9-hour candle. 1 sheet of write-in-the-rain. 2 sheets of printed survey paper. 2 pairs of gloves. cravat. 1 gallon zip top baggie.

Second row: thermometer. 2 alcohol wipes. 2 hand sanitizers. tongue depressor. roll of gauze. strike anywhere matches. aluminum foil tape. self adhering bandages. collapsing spork. ear plugs. antibiotic ointment. glow stick. silicone tape.

Third row: 5 large zipties. 2 small zipties. 220 grit sandpaper. pen. nail clippers. super glue. 9’ (3m) flagging. 25’ (8m) spectra fishing line 150 lb (65 kg) strength. small roll of medical tape. mole skin. permanent marker. 2 pencils with eraser(not that I have ever needed one). station light. steel wool. tweezers.

Fourth row: 24 hours worth of the following medicines. Aquatabs. Loratadine with pseudoephedrine. Naproxen. Acetaminophen. Ibuprofen. Loperamide. Ciprofloxacin. Caffeine. (If you have prescription medications, consider adding those to your kit.

My list of items works well for me and the caving that I do, it may not be what is best for you. What do you keep in your kit?

Improving rubber boots

I love my short rubber boots from Etche Securite, they are made from natural rubber that grips to muddy surfaces. But like all rubber boots, they have a soft sole that unfortunately, lets you feel what you are stepping on. Long vertical climbs also become painful because of the footloops digging into the boots. In the next few weeks, The CES will be a supplier of Etche Securite’s short and tall boots.

To solve this problem, try using puncture proof insoles available from Amazon or other shoe suppliers for about $25. The link will donate 0.05% of your Amazon purchase to the CES, there is no increased cost to you. The insole is stainless steel padded with neoprene. I’ve been using them for a few years and they work great.

Where is John Fioroni caving?

We all know we should tell someone where we are going caving and when you will be out. This is easy for known caves or when the cave is easily accessible. But what about for remote expeditions in foreign countries? I keep a Google Spread sheet called “Where is John Fioroni caving and emergency contact information” which I have shared with my wife. This way she knows where I will be, and whom to contact in case of an emergency or if I miss my “call out time”. Plus it is nice to track where I have gone caving and with whom.

Here is what my spreadsheet looks like. It is simple, but it gets the job done. Since it is hosted on the cloud, I can update when I am out, assuming there is cell reception. I’ve removed contact info and locations.

Capture.PNG